Thanks to recurr for the images.
This was posted over at the Fuselage as a version from someone that they suspect works on the show.
"The body of John Lantham of New York was found shortly after 4 am in the 4300 block of Grand Avenue.
Ted Worden, a doorman at the Tower Lofts complex, heard loud noises coming from the victim's loft.
Concerned for tenants' safety, he entered the loft and found the body hanging from a beam in the living room.
According to Jaime Ortiz, a police spokesman, the incident was deemed a suicide after medical tests. Latham (sic) is survived by one teenaged son.
Memorial services will be held at the Hoffs-Drawlar Funeral Home tomorrow evening."
Source: The Fuselage
Here is a close up of the newspaper article, about the funeral.
UPDATE: Posted an image of me messing with the angles and location of it. "I was bored"
(My little work)
Thanks to Ballcapguytx for this enhanced version. Click to enlarge.
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Newspaper "Through the Looking Glass"
(Comments: 824)
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824 Comments:
LOS ANGELES
Man found ??
downtown ????
Whoever it is, his name starts with J and he's from New York.
??????
James Ford (sawyers funeral)
01 LOS ANGELES
02 Man found __
03 downtown ____
04
05 __ ___ _ ____
06 __ __ _______
07 __ __ _____ ___ _ __
08 ____
09
10 ___ ....
The last name looks like it ends with "ingham" Like "Cunningham" or something?
It does have an -ingham at the end...hmm.
Sawyer isn't from New York
Juliet? :D
You know what's weird, is that Future Jack is on an Oceanic Flight, where if you go to the ABC owned (www.oceanic-air.com), it says they are out of business ever since the Flight 815 tragedy. Is this a production error? or is there more meaning behind this?
James Ford is not from New York. I think its John Locke.
A new Character.
Sheesh!
J could be Jacob...
Locke is from California.
The body of J---- ---ingham of New York was found...shortly after 4am
downtown loft
...after 4
...Grand
...the
...loud
...loft
It says whoever the body is that it was found in a loft and discovered ..... on a beam. I think whoever it is commited suicide hanging them self from a beam in a loft.
It's not Juliet. It says MAN. Also, it mentions beams. Someone hung themselves after leaving the island
Lost characters from New York: Michael, Rose and Bernard. The last part of the last name looks to me as "---ham" (possibly "ingham" as gemini girl states). No main Lost characters go by that name.
sorry it says uncoverd the body hanging from a beam in the ....
Man found downtown..4am..Grand Avenue..loft..beem..J something. Thats all i got..gonna keep looking
"The body of..... of New York was.... after 4 a.m. in the... of ..... ...."
It says FROM New York...not born in New York or from New York before a plane crash. Who knows where everyone moved to after the rescue.
It just means that someone who used to live in New York died in downtown LA. It could still be Locke, Sawyer or anyone.
Jeremy Bentham.
Its possible that its a character who hasn't been introduced yet. Maybe the one who got Jack and Kate off the island?
its obviously someone who was important on the island, but not important to kate, as she was quite indifferent???
How about this.... I dont think it is cunnigham... it is a ______antham.. and here is what our lost analyst team has to say from Florida "Man found in downtown loft the body of___________antham of New York was found shortly after 4:00 am in the _______ of grand avenue." the rest is being studied... we looked up bens last name and it is not him... some of the rest of the words say "heard loud _________ in ______antham's loft." " uncovered the ____________the ____ in a beam in the ____________." this is what we found. hope it helps.
It looks like Je to me.
any body got hd and a DVR, take a high res of the obit?
It's not "future Jack" those scenes were still flash backs. All of those scenes took place in the past because Jack says "Call my father down here and if I'm more drunk than he is, you can fire me." So it must take place in the past because Jack's father is still alive. This means that Jack and Kate had been on the island together before. This is their second time on the island.
MAN FOUND DEAD
DOWNTOWN
The body of J() ()antham
of New York----------------------------shortly after 4
a.m. in the-------------------------------of grand
---------was--------------------------------------
----------------------------.(end of 1st paragraph)
-------------------------------------man at The
----------------------------------------heard loud
----------------------------------------man's loft
----------------------------------------safety, he
--------------------------------------------in the
------------------------------------ a beam in the
Man found dead in downtown loft
The body of J--- --ingham of New York was found shortly after 4 a.m in the --- of Grand Avenue.
I can also make out the following words:
loud
uncovered the
from a beam(?) in the
thats all I see at the moment...
-dp-
you can make out a J in the clipping
Jack
Juliette
Jacob
Jin
John
James
it could be one of six people. Jesus
Los Angels
Man Found ________
downtown ____
The body of J__ ____ningham of
New York was found shortly after 4
a.m. in the ____ _____ of Grand
Avenue.
The _____ ____ man at The
Tower _____ _____ _____ _____ toward loud
noises _____man's loft.
____ ____ ___ ___ safety (or safely), the
travel the ____ a beam in the
--
--
--
--
--
It could possibly be Justin Huensch
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/jackblackV2/newspaper-crop.jpg
It says it's a man, so definitely not Juliet, and it says "antham" not "ingham"
It looks like "Jo" at the beginning of the name. Was it definitely confirmed that Locke is John's last name? Maybe it's not his real last name? I don't know, just a theory.
TO the comment about you think it is in the past b/c of jack saying bring my father down... we have looked at the video over and over and look at the cheif surgeons face and eyes when jack says this... he rolls his eyes and then later says he is trying to help him.... jacks father is not alive... and if you do not want to hear this next theory dont read it... stop now.......... We have looked at the footage and every time a flashback happens the camera is on jack... and jack is always alone... or not talking to anyone... even the last one he talks on the radio and then as if he is still thinking... what will happen and I doing the right thing? we think jack is imagining what might happen if he leaves... am i doing the right thing.. why do we keep thinking of getting off the island... so all those flashback or flashforwards is jack imagining what it might be like... and the season 4 jack will wake up and that day never happened??? just our idea...
ITS VINCENT!
RIP dog
Maybe: New character, old character who changed their name, or simply a fake name to trick us?
Has anybody else noticed that the funeral home was specifically shown as being in a black neighborhood in Los Angeles? Why would they SPECIFICALLY show that? I don't know about you guys, but usually when you go to a funeral in LA, and it's in a black neighborhood, it's usually a black person who died. At least, that's my experience.
here is what i have made out thus far:
MAN FOUND DEAD
DOWNTOWN
The body of J----- | --antham
of New York was [FOUND?] shortly after 4
a.m. in the ---------- of grand
Avenue.(end of 1st paragraph)
-------------------------------------man at The
----------------------------------------heard loud
----------------------------------------man's loft
----------------------------------------safety, he
--------------------------------------------in the
------------------------------------ a beam in the
I dunno. I read "The Tower" & "Beam" and got chills.
Whoa.
Anyways,
Any "Others" names that are J..ingham??
What was the name of the guy who answered the satellite phone?
I think it's Hurley's obit. Somehow, the nice guy turns out to be reviled later on, hence nobody shows up to the viewing. Also, the neighborhood was a spanish area of LA. Look at the businesses around the funeral home. Kate is now married to Sawyer (or Ben!)
There was a philosopher named Jeremy Bentham. Not anyone in the show yet, but it is a philosopher's name...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham
When Jack pulls up to that funeral home, the name of it is "Hoff/Drawler." This is an anagram for "Flash Foward."
Not exactly sure of the whole idea cause im missing an "S"
so screenshot?!
For the name on the paper, I read it as Je... ...antham
Well Jack was using a Motorola KRZR... that came out late 2006. Looks like the Sprint CDMA version too ;)
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/296/pic54200641455pm5242007zp4.png
Ezra James Sharkington. wouldn't that be like darlton to know that we would try and find out the name in the paper and throw out a name they recently made up
no one with the suffix ingham on this list: http://www.igetlost.com/characterlist.asp
Amy said...
It's not "future Jack" those scenes were still flash backs. All of those scenes took place in the past because Jack says "Call my father down here and if I'm more drunk than he is, you can fire me." So it must take place in the past because Jack's father is still alive. This means that Jack and Kate had been on the island together before. This is their second time on the island.
Thursday, May 24, 2007 5:20:00 AM
You CAN'T be serious? LOL
Considering his funeral was held in LA, in a black neihborhood, you would have to conclude this person is originally from NY and now resided in LA and was also black. From Kate's reaction, my initial thought was that it was Michael's funeral since he did doublecross them and killed two losties. Maybe we will learn he had an alias.
As for those in denial that it was not a flash forward, the whole thing was a flash forwad and it may very well be that his father is alive.
What if the name is Johnathan? or however its spelt? Was Locke's name really Johnathan?
^^ How tho... did he know Kate back then?
Yea, his comment about his father was an example of how messed up he was/is.
Also being called a "Hero twice-over" (I think is how it was put, pharmacy guy I think?) would elude to him being the hero that got the losties off the island.
Edward said...
When Jack pulls up to that funeral home, the name of it is "Hoff/Drawler." This is an anagram for "Flash Foward."
Not exactly sure of the whole idea cause im missing an "S"
so screenshot?!
You're not missing an 's'. The funeral home was HOFFS/DRAWLAR.
Nice catch with the anagram!
Jack is a lot older in the FF's.
Jack has a lot of grey hair.
Jack has maps all over his apartment of the pacific.
The scene with Kate made it very clear that this was a FF, not a flashback.
im running on red bull high... LOL! i think i need to sleep... just so many possibilities running through my head.. LOL
Yes!!
The hero-twice-over comment was a HUGE clue!!!
thanks sauce, recording it and red bull helps! :p
Edward! You are a genius!!
These writers really like messing with us, don't they?
its like that looking glass theory someone posted somewhere else.... its crazy!
GOOGLEPRO ---> that's what I said too! I agree with ya!
It is a flashforward or a possible future b/c the chief of staff was also the orderly who helped Locke into the wheelchair for his first time. HOw could he become chief of staff that fast??
What someone said earlier, what was the name of the guy who answered the sat. phone tonight? I thought it was some ingham name
According to the map I saved from the end of season 2... there are only three characters from New York: Bernard, Rose and Michael.
I do NOT believe it was a J in that article, I believe it was a script style M... Michael the Betrayer lies in that casket.
between the twice a hero, snazzy phone, we need to go back to the island, flight vouchers it appears to be a flash forward.
One question in the opening scene on the plane it really looks like Sun & Jin sitting behind Jack, wouldn't they recognize him, or was it not them??
I thought hero twice over meant that he saved his wife, then this chick.
"Friend or family?"
"Neither."
im out for tonight ladies and gents... head is hurting! HAVE A GOOD NIGHT!
It's Locke's Funeral. That is why Jack felt so bad because he didn't listen to him. He also had no friends or family. He also registered for his gun as Jonathan Locke! The paper says J......than
OH MY!!!!!!! I AM GOING CRAZY!!!!! HELP!!! I was putting a gun to my head after trying to figure all this out and as I was putting a gun to my head... WALT showed up beside me and said you are not finished... wait till season 4... am i going crazy??? help... ok good night.
T said...
OH MY!!!!!!! I AM GOING CRAZY!!!!! HELP!!! I was putting a gun to my head after trying to figure all this out and as I was putting a gun to my head... WALT showed up beside me and said you are not finished... wait till season 4... am i going crazy??? help... ok good night.
________________
roll fu ckin g eyes.
yea we know leighsa, edward posted that 30 minutes ago.
So... here's maybe another obnoxious theory. Perhaps when Jack made that rescuing phonecall they were rescued to a parallel universe? Jack's dad is alive, Kate is no longer a felon (I mean, if she was, why would she be so undisguised and not "running" as she is prone to do?)...
The name is JEREMY BENTHAM.
He was a philosopher.
PLEASE credit this find to ECKS_NIHILO
The name in the OBITUARY is JEREMY BENTHAM.
find out about bentham here:
http://o.forums.go.com/abc/primetime/lost/thread?threadID=1696095
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham
I don't Elise's theory is that obnoxious at all.
Only problem with that theory elsie, is that Jack's dad is NOT alive, but in fact VERY dead. Nice try though.
i thought the hero twice over comment was in reference to jack saving the woman, then going back in the car and saving the kid... or the reverse order, I forget what they said. Anyways, that's what I assumed was meant by that comment.
Anyone remember the aliases Sawyer/Locke's dad said he had used. Could J _antham have been one of them, and then Locke or Sawyer used it as their own alias after coming back from the island?
I do not believe it is a flash forward that we saw tonight. Rather, I think we saw the present. Everything we've seen so far has all been flashback - both on the island, and before the crash of flight 815.
Flash forwards are impossible and unreal, and this show, as crazy as this still sounds, is based in reality. Jack can't see the future; what we saw tonight is the present. Notice how Jack doesn't react to any of the "flash forwards". If he did see them, he would know he'd be that remiss about leaving, and would take steps to correct that mistake.
Jeremy Bentham is the name in the obituary....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham
1) http://thornemelcher.blogspot.com/
2) It could be any of them since names can be changed legally or illegally. Sawyer could have changed his name again.
Given his job as "temporary leader", he might be a community leader and he would have the resources and knowledge to fake a new identity, although that suggests a mystery of whom Kate goes home to.
3) Locke is his real last name given that we've seen the Others, hospital staff, and the police (all of whom have access to his records) all call him by that name. His only other possible last name is Cooper and it's doubtful he would change his name if he returns.
4) One more horrific link from me.
http://imdb.com/title/tt0411008/board/thread/75080852
(Part Three)
I also think we just saw the very end of the show. I.e. Jack and Kate meeting up is how Lost ends in 48 episodes. The only difference is that by then we'll know who was in the casket and we'll know why Jack was so distraught about not being able to go back.
Michael had recieved two tickets from Bryan, Walt's adoptive father in season 1. IMO, I think it's Michael in the casket, because the plane tickets that were given to Michael were both to Los Angeles. One that was a ONE WAY and that was ROUND TRIP! it's in episode 14! This is wierd, because I was just watching that episode today! I think that it's michael that died!
Google search of key words:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=man+found+downtown+los+angeles+new+york+shortly+after+4+%22grand+avenue%22+loud+loft+beam&btnG=Google+Search
Back to the message, I see "heard loud" and "safety" and immediately think "gun".
It had to have been someone from new york. Jack was in LA and i dont see an LA newspaper printing an obituary from NY. granted he got the paper on the plane. i suppose it could have been a new york times or something..
if you look, it shows ..
The body of .. "Jo or Ja" the start of the first name.
No way is Sawyer the "he" Kate was talking about. That's way too easy for Lost. Kate and Sawyer have pity sex, cry sex and jealous sex and that translates into a genuine relationship?...after howeverlong this flash forward is supposed to be? Not buying it.
ECKS_NIHILO...I'm sorry, but your theory is retarded. Explain it, please. Yeah, the name matches up, but how do you think this dude has anything to do with Lost? No freaking way.
How about Jacob???
What makes you think that Christian Shepard must be dead? As diannet said on the "flashforward?" thread:
DianneT said...
Here is what it says about Christian Shephard on the Lostpedia website:
Christian was said to be dead in the 4/20 Official Lost Podcast though the producers qualified their statement by saying that they "may be using the word 'dead' in a sense we [the audience] don't fully understand yet." This indicates an uncertain status as to Christian. Maybe Christian is alive.
In addition, the very suggestion of a parallel universe indicates that things are not the same as they were in the reality the Losties left.
Jeremy Bentham was a philosopher.
Who else was a well-known philosopher?
John Locke.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_locke
Someone said that Jack looked older in the flash forward, but what about the color of his beard. On the island there is obvious gray. In the Flash Forward, I doubt he'd dye it in the state that he is in.
sorry for the echo there sauce..i went back and deleted it. So I'm thinking the gist of Jacks flashforward is that he's now haunted by Bens words to him that if they leave the island ...they all will die. this funeral might be one of many...and jack can't bear to watch them all die one by one. He feels responsible as he refused to listen to Bens warning. Maybe they're all sick?
I think that when Jack is referring to his father(Go bring my father down) I think he is referring to heaven maybe. So still a reference that he is indeed dead.
d
"I do not believe it is a flash forward that we saw tonight. Rather, I think we saw the present."
Well, yeah. Which is the future from the perspective of the castaways.
"Only problem with that theory elsie, is that Jack's dad is NOT alive, but in fact VERY dead."
Where's the body? Jack was taking his dad's coffin home from Sydney when the plane crashed, but when he opened the coffin on the island, it was empty.
Maybe the "he" Kate was referring to was her son, not a man.
Surely her son would wonder where she had run off to late at night.
I rephrase my statement. It is not a "flash forward" in the sense that we understand "flashback." Rather, it is the present, and we get a glimpse of what'll happen. So yeah, all of LOST has been a mega-flashback from the point of today's flashforwards, if this makes any sense. BUT, since within the LOST world, the ISLAND is the PRESENT, then what we saw tonight wasn't the ACTUAL present, but the REAL future, what it all will lead to. But Jack was most definetly NOT getting Desmondesque flashes as he gazed unto oblivion. I buy the JEREMY BENTHAM possibility. It would tie into the whole John LOCKE, Desmond David HUME, Danielle ROUSSEAU philosopher trend.
Yes, Jeremy Bentham was a philosopher, but so was David Hume. This name parallels "Desmond Hume." The writers do this all the time just to screw with us.
Um, Jeremy Bentham came up with the idea of the Panopticon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon
"The concept of the design is to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) prisoners without the prisoners being able to tell if they are being observed or not, thus conveying a "sentiment of an invisible omniscience.""
Tim said...
Someone said that Jack looked older in the flash forward, but what about the color of his beard. On the island there is obvious gray. In the Flash Forward, I doubt he'd dye it in the state that he is in.
I noticed that too he had a black beard off island and some gray on island.
i think that, as time progresses on the island, time in the "real world" moves backwards. that's why jack's beard is dark, and his father is possibly still alive, in the "flash forward."
i think its locke. if you think about all the castways who have no family you'd think, sawyer and locke. now, i dont think kate would miss sawyers funeral. i think its locke.
and it was a flash forward. i just dont understand how kate can be so free. plus, from how she answered jack, she seems to be with sawyer... so.... its not sawyer.
and since jack thought she might show up, it should be someone from the island. so its locke. maybe he had another last name.
Let's remember that Lockes real name is Jonathan. Or atleast that was on his liscense in an episode.
PANOPTICON
"The concept of the design is to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) prisoners without the prisoners being able to tell if they are being observed or not, thus conveying a "sentiment of an invisible omniscience."
Pan-Opticon is, etymologically, the greek equivalent of the latin Omni-Science... not exactly, but it does meen all-seeing (all-seeing-eye DHARMA LOGO coming up?)
With this in mind, could it be that this person is Dharma??
The newspaper obit does say that this mystery person has been murdered. Jack's pretty pissed about this, since this man may be his ONLY way to find the island again.
Jeremy Bentham proposed Panopticon as a prison-house, the architectural principles of which incorporated novel principles of prison discipline and administration.
The name in the HD screen caps is clearly Jeremy Bentham. Here is some info about this European philosopher... very interesting indeed!
Who he was...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham
The Prision he designed, which was made to be able to observe all prisoners without the prisoners knowing they were being watched to create a power of mind over mind...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon
And lastly the socail power club he belonged to called the Jacobin Club (JACOB)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobin_Club
Now who is this guy? I'm gonna guess it's Locke (an alias from one European philosopher to another) or the guy who made it possible for all the whispers to exist(Read the prison part and you'll understand what that even means).
All i have to say is if we don't ever go back to the island...I'm not sure how long I can stay committed to the show.
I want to go to the island right now.
My dh and I were noting the casket looked very short as if it was for a child or small person. Anyone else catch this?
The name in the HD screen caps is clearly Jeremy Bentham.
Clearly... except the fragment is an "a" and not an "e".
It's clearly "antham" not "entham"
I could make out
LOS ANGELES
Man found d(eceased/ead)
downtown loft
The body of J--- -antham of
New York was found shortly after 4
a.m. in the --- of Grand
Avenue.
The -- a de--- man at The
Tower --- --- heard loud
noises --- -- m's loft.
Co --------- uncovered the
--- the from a beam in the
--- bedroom
Jack's neutrality and respect for this character, and Kate's rejection of this character leads me to believe that it may be Ben, other than that I really have no clue as to who the obituary may be referring to.
Maybe it's Jacob who's dead?
I have no idea. - but it starts with a J.
Maybe it's Jacob who's dead?
I have no idea. - but it starts with a J.
Perhaps in the flash forward, Kate is not going back to a lover but a parole officer.
If Jack is treated like a hero after the "rescue" perhaps the grant some clemency toward the fugitive in the bunch.
Food for thought.
Grand Avenue... The Tower...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Avenue_Project
How far in the future is Jack's nervous breakdown supposed to be???
the body of... Jacob Fantham? (phantom) heh. maybe? my head's spinnin'
The same way there's a John Locke in the 21st Century...
How could it be a philosopher that died in 1832?!?!? I feel like I'm on crazy pills. It cant be Jeremy Bentham. Why would there be an obit about him in the 21st century?!
If they came back and now are an alternative universe maybe it's Pru Cunningham (notice the ingham!) from the novel Bad Twin written by Flight 815 passenger Gary Troup. Maybe the novel is the universe they went back to.
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Pru_Cunningham
Here's what I think. It is Ben in the coffin. The survivors who were allowed to leave the island have taken assumed names and identities. For some reason, Jack has been allowed to resume his life, maybe some trade with the new others. BUT they weren't just rescued but sent back in time to a point before the crash. This would explain why Christian may be alive. Or everyuone knows Jack is a little off since his return and just puts up with his "my dad is alive" talk to not upset him further.
Whatever the real story is, this was indeed a game changer.
Edmund Burke was also a philosopher, and the name of Juliet's ex-husband if I'm not mistaken. Not that that matters much, but since we're collecting philosopher's names...
And as far as Jack's dad being alive in the flash forward, I find it dubious being that a) his license was revoked or something, right? so he wouldn't have been "upstairs" to demonstrate his drunkedness, and b) the doctor Jack was talking to was the "new" chief of surgery, which means obviously Christian Shepard was no longer the chief of surgery... presumably because he is dead, and/or dis-medical-licensized...
It seems to me that Jack mentions him in a sort of remorseful, guilt ridden sort of way maybe...
it is a flashforward.. because jack is using free passes from oceanic and he has a telephone from 2006
In last summer's The Lost Experience ARG, I remember one of the clues saying that the crash happened 2 years ago and the events unfolding in the game were current so I believe Jack's flash was current. I'm guessing we will see future flashes but they will consist of what happens when they go back to the island to fix whatever has gone so horribly wrong (in Jack's opinion anyway).
"The name is JEREMY BENTHAM.
He was a philosopher.
PLEASE credit this find to ECKS_NIHILO"
Uhhhh.... did you want a brownie or something?
Kudos if your theory pans out but for the love... you only need to post it once!
I think ECKS_NIHILO's theory that it is Jeremy Bentham certainly has a great deal of weight, given all the above statements. Also, look at his influences on the wikipedia page: John Locke, David Hume. Two characters share these names. With the above information concerning the Panopticon, it seems Bentham may be the leading theory.
The title of the episode might also refer to a story by Anton Chekov called "The Looking Glass." In the story a woman pleads with a doctor to save her sick husband, but the doctor is also sick. The ending eludes to her waking from a dream...?....
http://www.online-literature.com/anton_chekhov/1142/
This is my version of the text of the newspaper clipping...
This is my version of the obit clipping from the screen caps:
LOS ANGELES
Man found * downtown loft
1 The body of Jo... [L]antham of
2 New York was * [sho]rtly after 4
3 a.m. in the * of Grand
4 Avenue.
5 Tod/Ted* ... man at The
6 Tower ... loud
7 not*/notates? .... loft,
8 Con.... uncovered the
9 intended? the ... a beam in the
10 *dy ... hanger
11 ..room* ...
12 [Ac]cording...
13 ... ape
14 ... med
John Lantham? Maybe we have a new character coming on board next season? I've never wanted anyone to open up a coffin so badly! Oy!
I don't think it could be Locke's funeral, there's no way he would ever leave the island.
I'm thinking that when the rescue ship makes it to the island, they only have enough supplies to take a select few, vowing to come back for the others. That's why Jack feels so incredibly guilty, because they left people behind, and they haven't been able to find the island again....
ECKS_NIHILO Should NOT receive any credit for the Jeremy Bentham theory/posting. He posted at 5:32am according to the blog saying he thought the name was "J..... Anthem". One minute later LL_Smooth_J posted this:
There was a philosopher named Jeremy Bentham. Not anyone in the show yet, but it is a philosopher's name...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham
Almost 30 minutes later ECKS_NIHILO posted claiming credit for this observation/theory.
LL_Smooth_J should be receiving the credit for this connection.
I live in LA and work downtown. The bridge that Jack is on during the attempted suicide(?)/crash is not on Grand Avenue. I'm pretty sure that's the 6th Street bridge.
there's a good pic of it here:
http://www.transit-rider.com/ca.losangeles/images/20228/20228-74.jpg
He's looking down on the infamous LA River (in all its splendor). I'm sure the missing bit in the newspaper clipping just before "Grand Avenue" is the numbered block. i.e. "the 1200 block of Grand Avenue."
Foucault had some interesting things to say about the Pan Opticon as the culmination of the enlightenment/modernity.
I think the first one, is the best view. it just needs to be enhanced like the last one/get a better picture. When my mom saw it at first, she actually titlted her head to see if the view would change, lol. Like if she moved the article would show more, what a weirdo.
The newspaper clipping wasn't about the accident on the bridge, it was about the death of whoever Jack visited at the funeral parlor. That person died in "The Tower [something]" on Grand Avenue.
What if it's a flash forward but one in where Jack's father is alive again? Jack had visions of Christian in season 1, and Ben once said that the island (metaphorically) has a box that gives you whatever you want. What if Jack got his dad back so he could get closure with him? Only, in bringing his father back to life, he only brought back the pain/misery/guilt he had the first time around. Maybe this is why Locke didn't want Jack to leave the island yet, he knew something...
Think about it: Jack and Locke both get their dads back on the island, only Locke learns to let go and lets him die. Maybe Jack gives his dad a second chance....in the future that is...
What if it's a flash forward but one in where Jack's father is alive again? Jack had visions of Christian in season 1, and Ben once said that the island (metaphorically) has a box that gives you whatever you want. What if Jack got his dad back so he could get closure with him? Only, in bringing his father back to life, he only brought back the pain/misery/guilt he had the first time around. Maybe this is why Locke didn't want Jack to leave the island yet, he knew something...
Think about it: Jack and Locke both get their dads back on the island, only Locke learns to let go and lets him die. Maybe Jack gives his dad a second chance....in the future that is...
Cinnamon is leading this somewhere good! The word before "of Grand Avenue" ends with a "K". There's our "block", and the ripple preceding that word looks to contain numbers. They're very evident as the 16 is followed by a series of zeroes, so here is the term: 1600 block (or 16000 block).
Also, Ted _____ is the guy's name, it isn't a name that ends in ___man. So, THAT would indicate that Ted _____ is a DOORMAN at The Tower _____ COMPLEX.
Here's my build-on:
LOS ANGELES
'Man found d____ __
downtown loft'
"The body of J____ [Inital or Middle Name] Lantham of
New York was [found] shortly after 4
a.m. in the 1600 BLOCK of Grand
Avenue.
Ted _____, a doorman at the
Tower _____ COMPLEX, [had] HEARD loud
noises ____ __*__ LANTHAM'S loft.
____ ____ ___ TOWARDS SAFETY. The
COMPLEX ____(line 4 mangled!)__ DISCOVERED the
_____ ______ the ____ from a beam in the
____ _____."
Okay, as you can see in my notice, it appearts the
second paragraph has been edited to prevent us from
seeing everything. I can cleary see "100%" (!!!) at a different angle (slanting down at right at around 30 degrees) clearly in the middle of the second paragraph in the image /a04.1-full.JPG
Also with the name TED as the first word in the first line in that
paragraph, there are six lines if you count down both sides, but there's a problem...
The end of the sixth lines ends with"... a beam in the"!!! Go back and count all the lines. They don't match up so well.
I am trying to contribute, sorry. Given there's only one person we know that has worked in construction before, could this be a construction job or site where there is a serius renovation with other. Michael in on the job accident?
When I looked up the name Lantham, I found an article about an Indiana man who helped save many of his neighbors evacuating a apartment complex, and that the fire was causing beam to fall. I still don't get the immediate leaning to suicide with a few words scattered here.
I think a death related to fire, or some kind of accident could still be here. I saw no words declaring suicide, and I don't know how obituaries read (according to Helen from Locke's flashbacks in Season 2 episode "Lockdown", they're the best section since only good things are said), but I don't think they'd detail a suicide in depth. A possible homicide, yes.
What if in the following seasons, something starts happening to the people that escaped the island, and Jack is aware of this, and just reads papers looking for obits as he rides the planes?
When Jack sees the Action 8 news story about the accident, the caption says it was indeed on the 6th St. Bridge.
The paragraph with the beam in it says something like:
...man....at The Tower ..... loud noises....
a beam in the _____ barrier
so I dont think it was a sucicide I think it was an accident
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Bakunin
he was also famous revolutionist, and philosopher ;)
well at least we got lots of time to try and work it out :(
I agree -- future flash -- "still pulling people out of burning wreckage?" The Oceanic Gold Pass comment and Jack saying he wanted to crash again.
I'm just peeved that we've gotta wait 9 friggin mos for more questions (cuz we never get answers anyway! lol).
Anyone else think this 9 mos hiatus is a hugeee mistake? I know ppl were pissed at s 3's schedule, but it was MUCH better than this upcoming jip of 16 epis--seriously, talk about a momentum buster.
Yes "24" does it, however, 24 also closes out it's day & starts a new storyline w/each new season - doesn't leave you w/millions of ??'s, etc...sucks to wait and I don't aprpeciate it! grrr
btw, the obit is for Joanie Cunningham, problem solved ;)
I think that the body in the casket is Ben. But i think that his real name is Jacob, not Ben. So that explains the J in the obit. This is why no one is at the viewing. and it explains why Jack said 'neither' to 'friend or family'
i thought jack said 'either', as in the person could have been either one. maybe i misheard him.
Are you sure his Dad might not somehow be alive? He also tried to give a scrip for Oxycodon from hid Dad's office (and they offered to call) it could be an old scrip but?
his dad is dead...he stole his dad's rx pad and desperately wrote himself the rx for his fix...either Christians signature was forged by Jack, or stamped like many dr's are.
when Jack argued w/the new chief of staff telling him to go get his father to see who's drunker, he was high as a kite, he would've swore pigs were flying overhead at that time too.
From This Image: http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RlUe-1YihSI/AAAAAAAAFkw/ucINFuG1jfo/s1600-h/newspaperclipping2.jpg
LOS ANGELES
Man found d...
downtown loft
antham of
The body of Jo...shortly after 4
New York was J..of Grand
a.m in the....
Avenue.....
The........a...man at the
Tower............Heard Loud
noise..................Loft
Ch/Co.............Survived the
...the........a beam in the
...
.mom.. {Jacks
cord....{Thumb
... {Folds
med {Paper
What I think it should read:
The body of Jo..antham of
New York was found shortly after 4
a.m in the...of Grand
Avenue
The...a man at the
Towersaid he heard a loud
noise........loft
(then what is written above)
If we speculating Christian is alive and they already have been on the island, it may be some alternative timelines like donnie darko stuff, Jack/kate and possible others have travel back in time/space to choose differtent timelines and the flight crash never happend. Also Jacks father is saved. (and maybe kate saved her first love with the toyplane). But alot other things turnout bad, and the knowldge is hard for Jack.
It could be a way for dharma to save the world earlier.. but the storyplot have been used so many time its kind of lame to used it in lost.
couldnt the J ...antham be for Judge, like Judge Stantham of New York, that would explain why they say 'of New York" and why it would be in the newspaper in LA or anywhere. Do obituatures usually go into such detail about police, etc?
I believe the obit refers to a suicide by hanging as well (referencing the beam).
The last name says Lantham and since there is a crease on the 1st name, what looks like "Jo" could actually be "Ja' as in "Jacob' and thats why no one would want to go to the funeral.
Man found dead in downtown loft -
The body of J_____ _antham of New York was [found] shortly after 4 a.m. in the [___] of Grand Avenue.
Ted S____ a doorman at The Tower [_____] heard loud noises[_____] ing loft. Concerned for [______] he [____] the [____] discovered the [_____] hanging from a beam in the [_______].
[Jack's thumb] cordin...
You know, if you cut out the repetitive comments, threads like these would be 1/20th the length. RTFT. If someone else has already posted your moronic idea about how "its not a flahforward cuz jacks dad is still alive" then don't waste our time.
rob said: Flash forwards are impossible and unreal, and this show, as crazy as this still sounds, is based in reality. Jack can't see the future; what we saw tonight is the present. Notice how Jack doesn't react to any of the "flash forwards". If he did see them, he would know he'd be that remiss about leaving, and would take steps to correct that mistake.
I think you’re mistaking the literary term flash forward with the concept of precognition. If our main story details the events on island, then plot developments off island would be defined as either flashbacks or flashforwards, depending on the time frame. As long as these events are what occur in the future of the characters as they exist on the island in 2004, then they are based in reality.
It would be as if I told a story of your childhood and described an event in your future that was shaped by the events you lived as a child. “The three-year-old boy picked up the bat and encouraged his father to toss him the ball. He swung for strikes 99 times in a row, but the 100th swing was a slug, and it soared over his father’s head and into the neighbor’s yard. Twenty years later, as a young man, he would recall that moment as he hit his first homerun – a slug over the Big Green Monster.” That’s a flash forward – the same device the writers are now bringing into play.
Surely her [Kate’s] son would wonder where she had run off to late at night.
Surely, but if this is the present (2007/08), her son would be no more than four years old. I would hope she would leave him with a babysitter.
"The name is JEREMY BENTHAM. He was a philosopher. PLEASE credit this find to ECKS_NIHILO"
ECKS, your No-Prize is on the way!
btw, the obit is for Joanie Cunningham, problem solved ;)
Ahh, poor Chachi.
I think it's definitely Jo_ _antham. And I'd go so far as to say Lantham.
If it's a flash forward and John Locke leaves the island in the future, I think it's very plausible that John would kill himself. And given John's recent behavior, I think it's very likely he would not be considered a friend by any of his fellow castaways. So it makes sense his viewing would not be attended by anyone.
Going back to a theme from the show last night, I would guess Jack is sick with guilt because he left people behind and he wants to go back to save them. Live together, die alone. I think Christian is dead. Jack clearly has not had closure with his father.
Finally, please let that cyclops Russian be dead this time. If they resurrect him again, I'll stop watching the show unless someone says, "Oh my God, you killed Mikhail!" "You bastard!"
"Man Found...Downtown"
Could very well refer to WHO found the dead body....This means that the body could have been that of a man or woman, or even child, But the person that found it was a man.
The person if the obit is probably just someone we haven't been introduced to yet in the show. The date of Jack's newspaper in the Flash Forward is April 7, 2007! It's currently (whatever that could be said to mean on this show) December 2004 on the island. Thus, there are TWO AND A HALF YEARS that we don't know about--two and a half years in which we could be introduced to this person
I agree William....I don't believe many people read the comments posted before them. I always do & then usually find someone else posted my idea. ;) This is driving me nuts trying to figure out this name. My best guess was Michael but his last name was Dawson. My guess is it still could be him but perhaps he took on an alias...probably not but who knows. The only other thing I can figure is that it's someone we don't yet know & the writers have once again provided us with just enough info to make us crazy.
Did anyone notice that the casket was small in relation to Jack? So, whom ever it was, they were smaller than Jack.
Did anyone notice that the woman in the crash was middle aged. Her son was waiting in the waiting room at the hospital, with a sling on his arm. He waves at Jack when Jack passes him.
Could the boy be Sawyer's son? And the woman Sawyer's former GF/Con?
The boy even looked like Sawyer. Anyway, I think the boy's age is important in dating when this Flash Forward takes place. He looks at least 7 or 8.
Did anyone else catch this? Sorry if it's repetitive. Haha.
I'm all for it being Michael in the casket, too!
has anyone seen if that name that some people are refering to as being the man who died, scrambled up the words to see what they make??? maybe that would be the name of someone on the island
Jeremy Bentham is the name. From Wikipedia: "His hobbies included the study of time travel."
This is a character that has not yet been introduced.
Note: I believe that when Jack says he needs to "go back" he never refers to the island. This implies to me that he may be saying "go back" in time.
Perhaps Jack's father is alive in an alternate future because Jack changed the past, and in doing so f'ed up his future?
I thought the guy who answered the satelitte phone said something-ski like wilenski or Wizowski.. (hey he's the one-eyed green dude from Monsters Inc.) The sat.phone guy definately wasn't an **ingham or a
**antham
Here's what I was able to pull from a screen capture of the newspaper clipping.
LOS ANGELES
Man found dead in
downtown loft
The body of Jo...antham of
New York was...shortly after 4
a.m. in the...of Grand
Avenue.
So it's not anyone we have met yet or someone going by a different name.
[quote]Previously Wrote by p:
Did anyone notice that the woman in the crash was middle aged. Her son was waiting in the waiting room at the hospital, with a sling on his arm. He waves at Jack when Jack passes him.
Could the boy be Sawyer's son? And the woman Sawyer's former GF/Con?[/quote]
I think and heard this on a local radio station today, that the boy in the waiting room was actually Juliet's sister and her son. I kinda want to compare screen of last night with the ones where they show Juliet that her sister is ok.
Sawyer didn't have a son, he had a daughter named Clementine.
They mentioned the name of the patient. Did anyone catch that? And Sawyer has a daughter, not a son, as I recall.
I don't think it was any of the main characters. The funeral director asked...Friend or Family? And Jack said, 'neither'.
And when he saw Kate, she said 'why would she of gone to the funeral'
plus .. no one was there... so it had to be someone hated.
Could it of been Benjamin?
Well Michael would be hated. But since the names don't match up I have to guess that it's someone we have yet to meet.
Him being called a "hero twice over" could be because he saved his wife, or because he saved TWO people from the car crash and not just one. It doesn't have to mean he got the losties rescued.
What I want to know is who Kate was talking about when she said "he's waiting for me" or something like that when she was talking to Jack outside the car.
Well Michael would be hated.
He would. But where is he? Ben is adamant that no one leave the island. So we have to assume Ben sent Michael and Walt on a boondoogle.
My guess is they found "rescue" -- in the form of Mikhail or Alpert on a boat. My guess is Michael and Walt are still on the island (as of last night).
If it was Benjamin, don't you think the article would have said "Benjamin"? Why do people look at the article, which VERY VERY VERY clearly shows a name that starts with 'J' and ends with "-antham", and still insist of turning right around and saying "I think it says GOBBLEDY GOBBLEDY GOBBELDY"?
It sidetracks the entire discussion, because we have to reexplain to you what is shown in the high definition pictures on the VERY page you just came from to type that.
Just a couple things:
In LA, there is the Grand Tower Apts on Grand Ave, but I don't think that's what they're referring to.
There is a HUGE construction project going on right across from the new Walt Disney Concert Hall, on Grand Ave, and part of THAT is a huge residential tower (and that section of the redevelopment project might be called "The Tower Plaza"...I can't quite remember). I think there's a chance that's where they're talking about in the article.
What I want to know is who Kate was talking about when she said "he's waiting for me" or something like that when she was talking to Jack outside the car.
I suspect we'll find out as the flashforwards move backward through time and explain everything that happens after the island. S4's premier will likely tell us who is dead, and the new mystery will be "why?".
Him being called a "hero twice over" could be because he saved his wife, or because he saved TWO people from the car crash and not just one. It doesn't have to mean he got the losties rescued.
Except that his saving his wife would never be news. He was merely a doctor who conducted surgery on a patient that was a success. Happens all the time, every day. Plus, even if it made news in some capacity, no one in the public would recognize him for that feat some half-dozen or 10 years later.
But consider the kind of headline (had it occurred in real life) a doctor who helped save 40 plane crashes survivors and then saves a woman from a burning car -- what kind of news that would be.
Christian can't be alive still. Didn't the doctor say 'Your wife left you and your dad is gone' or something to that effect???
Kate says at the end, "Why would I go to the funeral?"
According to Wikipedia,
Bentham was a violent critic of the revolutionary discourse of natural rights, and of the violence which arose after the Jacobins took power (1792)
Any Jacob connection???
The funeral was also not in a "desirable" area....
Ah but if Michael & Walt were intercepted & brought back to the island then how would Walt's aging explained? Maybe Walt returned to the real world & aged until present time...being the time we see Jack & Kate...& now Walt has gotten better control of his special abilities & can appear more clearly now in places he isn't supposed to be. I wonder where he factors into the whole story of Lost...since he told John he has work to do & then John makes his way to the radio tower to kill Naomi. How would Walt know about Naomi & know that John is about to die & needed his help? I can't wait to find out more about Walt & all his special abilities.
I don't think they're trying to explain Walt's aging. I think they're just trying to glaze over it. He's wearing the same shirt as he wore in Season 1 when he got on the raft/boat/baft. If he returned home or anything, he would have new clothes.
I thought his clothes looked the same too. I thought I read somewhere though that the writers said they always had a plan to explain the aging of Walt. I know I've read it several times in all the comments but not sure of exact source.
With a casket of that size, to me it can only be a child. Usually the caskets for children are white tho. Not here...
No way can Ben, John or Sawyer be in that casket. Check out Jack above it, it's almost half his size.
And since the person in that coffin maybe have commited suicide, it can't be a partial body (as if he had blown up or something). And to the best of my memory, even when u die and lose limbs in the process, the casket is still your size. (woah, pretty wierd to think about that).
I just wanted to insist on that, I think only one or two persons noticed how small the cuffin was. It has to indicate something... well I think ?
BTW, did walt grow up pretty fast or what? :D Maybe this means something ? two theories : 1. producers still wanted the actor who originally played Walt knowing he looked older.... 2). Him being grown up was intentionally. This might just fuel up the time travel theory.
And... was it me, or did Jack's beard really look fake (nice work of the make up team, but still looked lame)
I think it is an A (antham) instead of an E (entham). BUT at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon it states:
"The architecture
incorporates a tower central to a circular building that is divided into cells, each cell extending the entire thickness of the building to allow inner and outer windows."
Also:
"The Panopticon has been suggested as an "open" hospital architecture: "Hospitals required knowledge of contacts, contagions, proximity and crowding... at the same time to divide space and keep it open, assuring a surveillance which is both global and individualising","
Interesting....
The reason Jack is called a hero twice over is because he rescued the boy, then went back and rescued the mother out of the flaming car. He wouldn't be called a hero in regard to his wife because he did not rescue her from anything, he was just a surgeon who performed a medical procedure He wouldn't be called a hero for getting the others off of the island because he did not do anything heroic to get them off. Charlie sacrificed himself, that is heroic. Sayid, Bernard, and Jin stayed behind to blow up the tents and try to kill whatever Others showed up, knowing they may not make it out alive, that is heroic. Jack being the leader of the Losties does not mean he is the one who got them rescued, nor does it make him heroic. Just my opinion.
If there was a child in the casket, it doesn't make sense that the news article said "body of a man." Also, I don't think there are any children EVER who would have not a single person at their funeral.
If it was an accident vs suicide, it doesn't make sense that the body was "found." Usually accidents have witnesses.
Maybe when children leave the island they have a growth spurt. Since it appears that Jack's flash forward is about 3 1/4 years in the future, the kid in the hospital could be Aaron with a growth spurt. It did seem that maybe the boy appeared to know Jack??
Could Claire have been the one in the accident, also prompting Jack to want to do the surgury even more.
I like the idea that the kid in the waiting room is Juliet's nephew...makes one wonder....
Certainly NOT _ingham.
Definitely _tham.
This philosopher is the best bet.
I hear a bunch of people saying it is not a flash forward... well some may already know this.... but.. if you take the name of the funeral home "Hoffs Drawlar" change the words around it spells flash forward. (anagram)
but i still think jack is just imagining... what might happen.